In this journalistic profession, as in everything, there are better days and worse days. Then there are the days when you can make a Comparison between a SEAT 850 Coupé and an 850 Spider which, evidently, represent exactly why you decided to become a motor journalist. So I have had the opportunity to Test two of the most special cars in SEAT's history And, of course, I'm going to tell you all about it in detail.
Our two protagonists are the best representation of how Spain changed from the late 50s to the 60s. At that time, and to a large extent With the help of the SEAT 600, the country left behind the terrible post-war period to begin a determined path to modernity in what was known as the “Spanish economic miracle”. If at the beginning of the 50s national production was almost non-existent, by the mid-60s, There was already room even for recreational models.
Is then when SEAT decides to expand its range which, at that time, already had the 600, its four-door derivative the 800, the 850 and the 1500. The Spanish market is already mature and, in this way, In 1967 the SEAT 850 Coupé appeared. It is not that until that moment there was not a small niche for this kind of bodywork, since FASA assembled the Alpine A108 since 1963 -just 161 units-, but we are talking about models with a certain diffusion. Even all kinds of handcrafted coupés began to germinate, many of which remained as a single model.
In fact, In that same year 1967, the manufacture of the A110 1100 in Valladolid, which, although it was aimed at another public with greater economic capacity, also serves to prove that the economic circumstances were different. Without further ado, let's first get to know the car from which our protagonists derive.
THE SEAT 850 COUPÉ ARRIVES
El SEAT 850 landed on the Spanish market in April 1966 as a larger model than the 600, although it was derived from it. It had an 843 cmXNUMX engine3 and 37 HP and improvements in cooling or gear change, since it had the first synchronized. It was also equipped with a 30 liter tank which extended autonomy. For its manufacture, A new assembly line had to be installed in the Zona Franca factory, which had just been expanded to accommodate greater production of the 600. The work cost around 500 million pesetas at the time and, in addition, 3.000 workers were hired.
Given the fondness for four-door models that has always existed in our country, Not one, but two variants with two extra doors were quickly developed.. Finally, the largest one made in collaboration with Carrocerías Costa won over the one from Lombardi. assembled by MARSA, of which only 419 units were made. At the same time, The 800 no longer made sense, so it was discontinued. after just over 18.000 units.
In April of 1967, During the Barcelona Motor Show, SEAT presented its 850 Coupé, a model that, as expected, captured all eyes. And not only the looks, as the requests were overwhelming, far exceeding the production capacity of the model. A star was born.
THE KEY: A SPLENDID ENGINE
The exterior lines of the model were a complete success, with an elongated nose and a gently sloping rear end which made it very attractive. In addition, it retained the two rear seats and a more than interesting trunk capacity, so even in the practical section it did not look out of place. The interior also received a new look. with two good-sized clocks and imitation wood details, for example.
Although the key to everything was under the rear hood. The engine maintained the displacement of 843 cm3, But with Compression increased to 9,3:1 and with a higher camshaft height and overlap. In addition, the exhaust manifold was now made of independent pipes and the original carburettor was replaced by a double-barrel Weber 30. With all these changes, 10 HP of power was gained, reaching 47 HP at 6.200 rpm.Reinforcing its sporty character, the wheels grew to 13 inches and it was fitted with front disc brakes, being the first model of the brand to mount them.
Ultimately, SEAT put on sale a charming coupe with more than interesting features, as it announced a top speed of 140 km/h. Without a doubt, in just a decade, Spain had gone from having hardly any production of its own, to a market that already accepted small mass-produced coupes.
By the way, This same engine ended up equipping the 850 to give life to the Special version. Yes, the one that is announced in the press with the resounding slogan “Load it up, put it at more than 140 and you will know why we call it Special”, advertising that Enrique Hernández-Luike refused to reproduce in his magazines.
ONE STEP FURTHER: SEAT 850 SPORT
In July 1969, the icing on the cake for SEAT arrived, precisely the same month in which the brand reached the million units producedIt was the turn of the SEAT 850 Sports, official name, since it was never called Spider, although that is how it is known and how we will name it in this comparison. In this case, the chassis of the 850 It was dressed in a beautiful two-seater body designed by Bertone which is a real beauty.
As his partner in this comparison, The SEAT 850 Spider arrived with new features in the mechanical aspect, and not smaller precisely. The engine went to cubic 903 cm3 thanks to the increase in stroke, which went from 63,5 to 68 millimeters. In addition, Compression was increased to 9,5 to 1, an alternator was fitted and, finally, a finned aluminium oil pan which improved cooling. With all these improvements, The power was 52 hp at 6.500 rpm., which is almost 10% more than the Coupé. The maximum torque has also increased to 65 Nm at 4.000 rpm.
Taking advantage of the absence of rear seats, The rear suspension was lowered and even had some negative camber. which contributed to better handling. Otherwise, the wheel sizes were maintained and, logically, the front disc brakes. The interior was also changed, with a tablier in imitation wood that gave it an extra touch of sophistication. Officially, barely gained 10 kilos of weight, so the performance has improved considerably, with a maximum announced speed of 150 km/h. It should be noted that, in this case, Numerous body parts were imported, since a blind eye was turned somewhat to the issue of nationalization of production.
Thus, The 850 had become the first SEAT to have its own range, with two- and four-door versions, coupe and convertible. Even a van version called 850 T KombiWith the mechanics of the Spider, the SEAT 850 Sport Coupe already at the end of 1969, in this case with a beautiful front with double optics that differentiated it from the Coupé. In addition, it was equipped with wider rims and radial tires. Its arrival meant the discontinuation of a Coupé that had become outdated. As regards the 903 engine, would become one of the longest-lived of the brand, since he even rode it Marbella.
COMPARISON OF SEAT 850 COUPÉ AND 850 SPIDER
The time has come to present our two protagonists, two specimens in perfect condition because belong to the collection of Historic SEATsThe 850 Coupé is painted in the model's usual blue, while the 850 Spider, which celebrates its 45th anniversary this year, is painted in sky blue. Both remain in their original state, as it could not be otherwise, and they are usually common at the events attended by the brand's historical department.
In this comparison, we will be able to see not only how fun the 850 Coupé and Spider are, but also how, With the same base, each one shows a different character. And not only because of the difference made by the mechanics they mount at the back, something that, when it comes down to it, is less noticeable than you might think, Possibly because of the discomfort that every convertible brings with it..
When placed side by side, it is difficult to choose, because The Coupé is so well designed that it competes in attractiveness with the Spider. In the latter, we can clearly see how the front and rear overhangs have been lengthened, with a perfectly resolved rear drop. In any case, there is no doubt that we are facing Two of the most attractive SEATs in history brand.
IT'S TIME TO TEST THE COUPE
Let's start this comparison between the SEAT 850 Coupé and the 850 Spider We climbed into the first one. The truth is that its attractive exterior design ends up meeting the expectations it raises, starting with a rather sporty driving position. On the dashboard, with very attractive imitation wood inserts, we find two large clocks, almost imitating the best sports cars.
In any case, There is a speedometer and another dial with the water temperature measurements and the gauge., that is, there is no trace of a rev counter, which is not necessary either. If you want to know when to shift gears, just follow the red dots on the a speedometer that is set to 160 km/hThe instrumentation ends here, which is normal, since the mechanics do not require any major care that would make it necessary to read the oil temperature or battery status.
We sat quite low in seats that are better than those in the saloon, but which, in any case, offer very little lateral support. The exterior visibility is very good and it is not difficult to feel comfortable, although the pedals are slightly shifted to the right. However, whoever wants to access the rear seats, you will have to do some contortions, and there is very little space to sit down. It is more or less like in the sedan, let's not kid ourselves.
AT THE DRIVE OF THE SEAT 850 COUPÉ
We turn the ignition key and a purring sound comes from the back. In this case, there is no need to talk about the symphony of the engine, but what matters is that it pushes, and of course that The mechanics more than meet the requirementsWe spent the first part of our test of the 850 Coupé getting to know our guest, a process that is always advisable with any classic car we get into for the first time.
Initially, the route includes some highway-type roads where our protagonist begins to show his age. It can handle urban traffic without any problems., but maintaining very fast cruises is already beyond its reach, and that is despite the fact that it has a longer quarter than the sedan. Thanks to its aerodynamics, It is not excessively noisy at any speed, which allows us to maintain a conversation with our companion without much difficulty.
We then head out onto a secondary road where the 850 Coupé is much more comfortable, travelling at a slower, but not slower pace. And that is because, If you spur him on, he responds confidently, accelerating decisively.. When the curves come, we have to work with a steering that, while moving, is not heavy, but that requires us to be decisive in each turn. A little more lateral support from the seats would be appreciated, but that is what there was at the time.
We will also have to play with the gear change, since it is at the top of the speedometer where it gives its best, so that We will be able to roll much faster than we might think. It is a small toy that will make us sweat to go fast, but that gives us a fun and complicated ride. The truth is that, despite carrying all the weight behind, Management responds to our dictates without complaintThe brakes deserve a special mention, as they perform excellently.
SECOND ACT: THE SPIDER
I get out of the Coupé smiling to get into its brother, the Spider, the only convertible that SEAT has put on sale, which gives it a place of honour in the history of the brand. And no wonder, because we are talking about a car that is a real cutie and, more importantly, offers a lot of driving fun, an important aspect that some electric car fans find difficult to understand.
Here we have the sensation of lying on the ground., although the driving position is not very different from that of the coupé. What is different is the dashboard, divided into two and with the Bertone signature clearly visible. We have a total of five watches, with the two main ones dedicated to the speedometer and, now, to the tachometer. It also has readings for water temperature, oil pressure and a gauge.
The seats are similar to the Coupé, so we already know that Lateral support will be conspicuous by its absenceBehind them, we have a small space to carry packages, shared with the hood. The assembly and disassembly work is not particularly complicated., but it is best done by two people. To open the trunk, you have to do it from inside the glove box, which is a safety measure, since it has a key.
At the time, A hardtop was offered as an option which would probably turn the 850 Spider into almost a coupé, although ruining its aesthetics, of course. In any case, it was an accessory with little success. And I'm not surprised, because travelling in the open air with this car is a real pleasure. Let's get to it.
ENJOYING THE 850 SPIDER
I can't say I'm surprised that the Sport is much more responsive than the Coupe., given the mechanical gap between the two. What's more, it has a sportier feel and invites, as long as we are not fussy about the discomfort of the air, to go faster.
Obviously, the driving position, the gear shift or the pedals are similar, but the truth is that, From the start, the car pushes harder and better. Even the sound seems more refined to me. The truth is that, even with the roof open, it allows you to go faster, showing greater aplomb than the Coupé. Fast roads are not its element, but when we look for a secondary road, the fun skyrockets.
Seen from today's perspective, it is shocking. How much driving pleasure does a 52 hp car offer?, even though it weighs very little, since it weighs just over 800 kilos with a driver. In addition, it asks to be driven, that is, invites us to play with direction, to trace and to look for the best exchange rate at every moment. Almost without realizing it, you end up going very fast, sweating as you play with the steering wheel in every curve.
The truth is that only the Typical drawbacks of every cabriolet There are a few drawbacks to the Spider. We have the Sport Coupé as an option, which, in any case, does not have such a sporty feel. In short, this SEAT 850 Sport Not only is it a great convertible, but it is an excellent sports car.Curiously, in terms of fuel consumption, it is more expensive than the Coupé.
THE LEGACY
We have reached the end of this comparison between the SEAT 850 Coupé and the 850 Spider and it is time to recap. In total, 21.058 units of the closed model were manufactured, to which we should add another 15.000 of the Sport Coupé, figures unthinkable for Spain a few years earlier. The Spider was less practical, but above all much more expensive. For example, in 1972, It cost 175.000 pesetas compared to the 149.000 pesetas of the Sport Coupé. with the same engine.
Perhaps for this reason, Only 1.746 examples of the Spider were produced. which are highly sought after today, with the Coupé slightly less so. Both are among the most sought-after SEATs today. This is in contrast to the rest of the 850, a car of which more than 600.000 units were sold, but which It does not have the aura of other contemporary modelsPablo Gimeno argues that the reason could be its outdated mechanical conception in the face of the unstoppable phenomenon of "everything forward" popularized by the Mini de Issigonis.
In any case, this does not apply to our protagonists, as they remain two of the most popular cars in history. Given the style and driving fun they offer, it's no wonder. So that no one can say that I don't get involved, given the choice, I'll stick with the SEAT 850 Sport, the brand's only convertible.
Photographs by Javier Romagosa.
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS |
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SEAT 850 Coupe | SEAT 850 Sport (Spider) | |
Motor | longitudinal rear | longitudinal rear |
Displacement | 843 cm3 | 903 cm3 |
Cylinders | 4 in line | 4 in line |
Diameter x stroke | 65 x 63,5 mm | 65 x 68 mm |
Maximum power | 47 hp/6.200 rpm | 52 CV to 6.500 rpm |
Maximum torque | 60 Nm / 3.600 rpm | 65 Nm to 4.000 rpm |
Meals | Weber 30 double barrel carburettor | Weber 30 double barrel carburettor |
Distribution | Cylinder head valves, rods and rocker arms | Cylinder head valves, rods and rocker arms |
Compression | 9,3:1 | 9,5:1 |
Fuel Efficiency: | Petrol | Petrol |
Traction | Rear | Rear |
Gearbox | four speed manual | four speed manual |
Chassis | self-supporting monocoque | self-supporting monocoque |
Front suspension | Independent, with transverse leaf spring, shock absorbers and stabilizer bar | Independent, with transverse leaf spring, shock absorbers and stabilizer bar |
Rear suspension | Independent, with swing arms, springs, shock absorbers and stabilizer bar | Independent, with swing arms, springs, shock absorbers and stabilizer bar |
Conductor | Worm screw | Worm screw |
Truck Brake Repair | Discs (front), Drums (rear) | Discs (front), Drums (rear) |
Length/width/height | 3.608 / 1.500 / 1.300 mm | 3.824 / 1.498 / 1.220 mm |
Ways | 1.158/1.212 mm | 1.158/1.212 mm |
Battle | 2.027 mm | 2.027 mm |
Shot put | 720 kg | 730 kg |
Tires | 4,5J x 13 (sheet metal) | 4,5J x 13 (sheet metal) |
Tires | 5,5 x 13 | 5,5 x 13 |
Average | 8 l / 100 km | 9 l / 100 km |
Maximum speed | 140 km/h | 150 km/h |
Rel. weight/power | 15,31 kg / CV | 14,03 kg / CV |
year of presentation | April 1967 | July 1969 |
years of production | 1967 – 1969 (late) | 1969 – 1972 (spring) |
Units produced | 21.058 (not including Sport Coupé) | 1.746 |
Quotation | 7.500 - 11.000 euros | 8.500 - 13.000 euros |